We are always building networks between deals, that is why building relationships is important in the real estate industry. In this episode, Jason Bible and Robert Orfino talk with entrepreneur Casey Dean Eberhart about finding and keeping private lenders. Casey discusses how to develop relationships with private lenders and keeping those relationships strong. He also touches on why investing in a crazy business is risky. Join Jason, Robert, and Casey in this episode and build the biggest, baddest network to win the game every single time.
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Finding And Keeping Private Lenders With Guest Casey Eberhart and Co-Host Robert Orfino
We’ve got Casey in the studio with us and we’re going to talk about finding and keeping private lenders. How do you establish those relationships?
This is a safe space, Jason.
What I told everybody that, I’m not paneling, I was moderating, you should have seen the look on everybody’s face, “What’s a safe space?” This woman asked this question, I’m like, “Don’t everybody jump on this poor woman, everybody chill.”
That’s a different meetup.
That’s the Friday meetup so I’m like, “Everybody chill, it’s going to be fine.” This is a safe space for lenders and borrowers alike. You had an event, how’d that go?
We did, it was great. This is Casey and I’m super stoked to be here first off Jason and Robert. Thank you so much for having me out. Our event was fantastic. It was an intimate conversation and it centered around on money, where to find money and how to build that relationship bank, how to be the bridge between deals, people, money and all of that stuff wrapped up into one.
We were talking before that you’ve got two things that played in one time. You’ve got deals, you’ve got money and you’ve got to build this dating relationship between the two of those things to bridge that gap.
That is almost the perfect analogy, you’ve got one side of people that have deals and you have another side of people that have cash. One of the things that happen is banks and the hard money guys try to make it easy for those deals to find cash, but it can be expensive. It can be not fast; it can be a lot of things but if you build that relationship pool or that network of people that you already know that have money that’s ready to invest. They know like and trust you. They know what you come from and what your thought process is, then that money becomes a lot easier to gain. If and only if you almost don’t need the money before you need the money so you show that you care about somebody and care about that relationship before you need the money? We were talking and it was funny, it has not stopped ringing through my head.
A lot of times the people with the cash think they run the operation and sometimes the guys that have the deals run the operation. Because without the deals the cash isn’t needed and so it is a symbiotic relationship between the two and so our jobs as entrepreneurs and investors are to figure out how do we find a deal from somebody that’s going to give us the deal and how do we find the money? I am a huge believer that the people who put effort into building those relationships with people that have the money in their IRA or under their mattress or wherever it maybe is a far faster deal maker. Compared to somebody that’s going to hard money or trying to go through the bank system.
The other thing, the untold part of that story is that there are a lot of deals out there that hard money lenders and banks look at and they go, “Ugh.” That would be a hard one for a bank or a hard money lender to take down. We’ve got a deal in Corpus Christi that is closing. When you look at it, you’re like, “This is a mess.” It’s an absolute mess and you have a conversation with the banker. We got cowboy banker down there, he looks and he goes, “You’ve got to be kidding me, there’s no way.” You start going through the numbers and they go, “We’re interested in lending on it when it’s stabilized,” but the train wreck that it is now, “No doubt you guys can do it.” That’s another thing they’ll tell us, “No doubt you guys could do it but bring it to us when it’s a cashflowing asset.” The reality is that in your investing career, you’re going to have to have a mix of banking, hard money and private money because at any one time either of those three groups may not want to do the deal that you’re doing.
I was going to say on top of that, much better to have 20, 30 or 40 let’s call them engineers and doctors for generalization purposes. Twenty engineers that have a bunch of money sitting around that want to put it to work so that if one deal doesn’t make sense because he doesn’t like Texas or another guy doesn’t like Corpus Christi and another gal is on vacation. You’ve got a bench, you’re almost building out a team in sports, but you want to have a team of people around that you can be on the horn to for referrals, references all that kind of stuff. Keep them in the loop of what you’ve got going on so they know what you’re doing so then they can plug in when they’re ready.
It’s a good point that you bring up and you’re the master networker and one of the things that I always see you do is on the referral sides like, “We don’t have anybody. Do you know anybody that’s interested?” It is constantly going down that rabbit trail to find who would be interested or who’s got deals or who’s got money and then marrying those two together but always asking, “You might not, but do you know somebody who would?”
It’s all about the questions and as long as those questions don’t always come off like they’re always about you or me, the better off we’re going to be like. Even after everything was said and done, the way I ended it was saying, “The floor is yours. Who do you need? Who do you want on your network? Who do you want to know? Who do you want to meet? What types of people do you want to know?” There were a lady and a young gentleman. Their eighteen-year-old son, super sharp guy, eighteen-year-old kid rolls up there in a suit ready to learn, he was the star of the show and she said, “We are financial planners and we’d love to be in front of first-time home buyers and realtors.” It was very easy for me to go, “We’re 1.5 hours into this thing and this is the first time that you said that.” There’s a guy back there who has a team of seven realtors that works with it. If you talk to first-time homebuyers, then let’s go find the real estate agents that are doing first-time homebuyer seminars and workshops. Let’s partner with them because we serve the same customer.If you got a little bit of cash, you're a hard money lender. Click To Tweet
We don’t compete. We serve the same customer and if we do this right the first-time home buyer then puts some money in financial services, grows it a little bit then they’re able to refi, they’re in a better credit position so on and so forth. We can come back and build that relationship over and over again. It is imperative as we build our network between deals. It is one thing to try to, “Build your network.” When you’re in the middle of a deal and you need a $500,000 and you need $750,000. It’s a whole another thing when you’ve got nothing going on to be able to put the time and the effort into figuring out who in your network needs something and we’re in that network can you help bridge people together, it’s huge.
There’s something that we’re learning on the Mr. Texas Real Estate and our club side in that whenever you’ve got this business, you’re a hard money lender, you’re a title company, you’re an insurance company, you’re a real estate agent office whatever it is. Your myopic view is that my value proposition is such that, “If somebody’s looking for a house, they’ll call me. Somebody wants to buy insurance, they’ll call me.” I’m like, “That’s true but it’s also not.” The part that’s not true is you’re assuming that the information you have will produce a sale. The reality is maybe you need that real estate agent to work with you as the insurance person to be able to bridge that gap to get that sale. That’s where you do have to do these things as teams. You’ve got your insurance guys, you’ve got your real estate agent, and you’ve got some mortgage folks.
I’ll go even further. They’re assuming that they remember you. We want private money. We make no secret about it. We have a meeting that we do once a quarter. We make these little things lunch and earn, we do all these events and our assumption is that the 60 people that have told us they want to lend us money will remember us when their next loan comes back to their bank account.
I will even take it a step further. The 60 people in the room are much further along in the process of giving you money when you may or may not even think of it. It’s who do those 60 people have access to. They could fill that room and explode it to 300, 400 and 500. Because you’re working with the influencers so how do we take those 60 people that came, bridge them and take them along this journey through the project? I was talking with Robert and I said, “I believe truly that the people that are going to make money when you’re talking to engineers, doctors, dentists, veterinarians is somebody’s got to step in and take away the scary.
That’s why I love what you guys do, Mr. Texas Real Estate is that you are always offering education in those bits and pieces and your social media platform is fantastic. You’re always putting yourselves out there, raising your hand going, “We’re patient. We’ll moderate panels. We’ll do meetup groups. We’ll step in and be that gap between the super-scary.” I saved for many years and I’ve got $100,000 in the bank to, “I’m ready to invest in a junker house in Texas somewhere and I live in Missouri.”
Take away the scary and what are the risks? I had a guy grabbed me and he said, “If you’re interested, we got to work on developing a risk model.” How do you identify all the risks associated with a deal and then how do you mathematically mitigate as an engineer? I said, “We could totally build that, but it might be a room with me and you plus six other guys.” That’s what you’re trying to do when you say by the time the lawyers are done it is $50,000. “Here’s the risk model, it’s a $100,000 to look at it.” The fascinating thing is that when you identify the risk and you identify what those downsides are, you can make a real decision. The guy selling the real estate education in the blue suit at the back of the room that wants to sign you up for the $50,000 real estate package doesn’t explain that. Here you are, you’re a brand new investor, and you’re trying to figure out how does this works. What’s ARV? What are all these different things? You’re like, “From a risk standpoint, I got to sign up with this educator because I’m hoping they will educate me on the risk of doing real estate.”
If that person is investing $50,000 in somebody that is going to take away the scary. That’s the model, it’s a big scary world out there. If I want to be a player, I want to invest in real estate. I’m going to go hire a coach or a trainer or whatever that’ll help take away that scary. That’s why one of the things I respect and what you guys do so much is that you are in essence taking away the scary. I’ve joked with you before that I watch your Facebook Lives. I don’t care if you’re in a bad neighborhood or you’re walking in a hotel. You’re educating me throughout that process to go, “I’ve got $100,000 or $50,000 in my IRA.” Mr. Texas Real Estate, this guy doing these videos I see his process, he takes me along on that journey. I’ve already stepped into your journey and you don’t even know it. That’s one of the reasons social media is so valuable and what you guys do is it literally takes the platform and takes away to the scary.
We’re talking about how to find, develop a relationship and keep that relationship strong with private lenders. I’m glad I wasn’t in that room with Jason because the thing that I do not like is the hard money lender that disguises himself as a private lender.
Inside of Texas, we do make this pretty hardcore distinction between private money and hard money so I’ll never forget the first time I went to AAPL Prima which is the National Private Lending Group. It’s supposed to be private lenders so we flew out there. I’ll never forget, flew out to Kansas City. I went to the conference met a lot of people and that’s when you realized that outside of Texas, hard money and private money is synonymous. They’re one of the same, it’s not a bank.
What happens has been in the California market and sat in rooms. There are coaches, speakers, trainers, gurus, thought leaders that train that, “If you got a little bit of cash, you’re a hard money lender.” I meet the guys from Jet Lending, I’m like, “No that’s a business that scraped together a couple of grand and I’m not going to be able to compete in that market.”
That’s a good point because that’s professional lending in a real estate specific organization. That’s what we think of a hard money lender and then you look at the private money, he got a couple $100,000 maybe leverage he got a few million and that’s a whole different model. There are all these real estate gurus say you could lend to real estate investors.Building the biggest, baddest network is going to win the game every single time. Click To Tweet
When we do find that private money then it is all relationships. I’m not looking to make another application with grandma who’d all of a sudden decide that she’s going to be a pseudo hard money lender because it’s even colder. At least Eddie will buy me a beer, it’s even colder than that application so I’m going to say that if you’re looking to make hard money, you’re going to go to Jet. We like Jet Lending and there are a couple of other great guys in town too.
I take a lot of meetings for private lenders. In fact, I was doing bank phone calls which were fascinating. Inside of six minutes literally, I’m like, “This was a great call, but I already know we’re not going to end up doing business together.” That’s okay. Private lenders, I’ve heard this before since I’ve got the gold, I get to make the rules and I hear that and I’m like, “No, you don’t.” Because you’re not talking to ten flippers or ten real estate investors that have done over 600 deals.
We’ll be putting in a different perspective, you may have the gold if you’re sitting in that room with the money, but you’re giving that money to somebody who’s in charge of burying it. Putting the map together and finding it to recover later. If that person goes down a different journey, you might have the gold and you can act like a hotshot but if you give it to the wrong guy to bury the treasure and think you’re going to get it back, that could be an entirely different story.
That is what we’re doing. We’re taking this capital and we’re burying it somewhere and at some point, we got to go find it and bring it back. To Rob’s point and he’s right when you talk to every private lender out there, they want to know, “Is my principal coming back?”
The first thing they want is, “Do I get my money back?” No one cares about the interest and all that stuff until they get their money back and then it’s like, “How much did I make on?” I’m happy that we’ve got a slow roll here and we fall down with them. You’re going to help us in staying in touch with these people better because everyone needs to learn that. I’m happy that I got on the phone with someone from Pennsylvania that I’ve been talking to four to six times. It was a very warm introduction.
He’s interested in the hotel. He’s flying in for the quest event, because he’s a private lender and we’re going to go down and look at the hotel and sounds like everything is good. The same ilk, someone came up to the office, a guy that we’ve been doing business with for a while. He sat down and said, “I’m interested in doing this.” We have a pre-existing relationship, we’re talking and we went through everything we have and, “That sounds too lifestyles to me, I don’t want to do that.” He’s like, “I like that one, let’s talk about that one.” We have this relationship with our private lenders.
For sure at least, dinner or lunch with everyone that we’re working with and so it becomes more of a relationship and that’s private to me versus hard money. I don’t need to go out with Johnny that even though they have bought this plenty of food, plenty of deals and all other stuff. Probably our list is 60, another 60 we’ve done business with twelve, so we’re doing a digit of about 20% of the list. We are a completely open book, words and all, we have no problem sharing. It’s the other 48 that I lose sleep about because we haven’t got them in a deal yet. We haven’t found anything for them and you had a big slide up there. Every month you don’t have contact with people you’re losing influence over them.
Those 48 are still scared. He breaks it down. Those 48 people have raised their hands and said, “I’ve got some gold, I need somebody to go bury it, but I’m scared that you’re not going to know how to draw the map, I’m scared that your boat sucks.” That’s why what I would recommend is and I would say this to anybody reading is to go join the Facebook group, Mr. Texas Real Estate. That way they can start getting those answers.
A super silly example is somebody that has a bunch of money. A doctor, engineer, veterinarian and teacher after 77 years of teaching. They get scared when you guys use tons of acronyms. That’s why real estate agents have this hangover because you get the setup sheet and you’re like, “What’s ARV, PG, this acronym, 3-2?” The people that are scared don’t know that information so when you guys do walk around so you do Facebook Lives or you’re posting stuff in that Facebook group at Mr. Texas Real Estate.
On the way in, Robert used an acronym and I didn’t know what it meant, I was like, “Stop. Slow down, what does that mean? Go back and explain it.” That’s taking away the scary away. What’s fantastic about you is those 48 people get them in a room together. Do a customer appreciation thing once a quarter and take your investor group out and say, “What questions you guys have?” This 48, if number 46 has a question, number four has a question, let’s get them in. Let’s take away the scary, put a big blanket around them, and swaddle them.
We’re talking about how to find, engage, and keep private lenders around you for your deals. We’ve got 48 people that have not engaged us that probably have still some sort of scary and so we’ve got to figure out what do we do. We don’t have a good system to keep in touch with other than the events that we do and hope that they show up, and a lot of them do. We have private lenders that show up for classes that I have no idea why they’re there, but they want to watch us and figure out what we know but maybe you can give us two pointers on how to keep in touch with those folks.
Let’s take those 48 people. We’ve got 60 people in our ecosystem that we want to do deals with that have raised their hand and said, “We have a little extra capital, we want to put it to work.” You’ve worked with twelve. We’ve got 48 that we haven’t done. It’s important that we first start with the overall premise which is that, for every month you don’t have contact with a client, prospect, or in this case a person that has capital, you lose about 10% of your influence. If those 48 people, you don’t talk to them and you’re not in touch with them for two to five months goes by and your competitor’s down the road, go and say, “I’ll love you, come into my Facebook. Come into my Mr. Texas Radio Facebook group. I’ll take away the scary.”
You run the risk of those 48 people going somewhere else. We want to make sure because it’s so important, the Mr. Texas Real Estate Radio group or if you want you can text Robert directly. I’m going to give out his direct text number at (281) 401-9008. Text him and Jason with any questions you have. They’re happy to jump in and help take away your scary if you’re somebody that’s reading and you’ve got some capital that you might want to put to work so super easy thing to do.
Take that list of 48, print it off in an Excel document, a Word document, handwrite it on whatever. Stick it in your car and every time you go to the grocery store before you get out of your car, text five of them saying, “I’m touching base, saying hi.” I have a stack of business cards in my car that’s about two inches thick and my deal is every time I get out of my car, I text the top one on the list and then I put the card at the bottom. It’s a continuous rotation of 200 cards that are in there. Some people get ripped off; some people get added to the list so that’s one way easy to do.
Number two, I was sitting with you guys at the office and I saw two great magazines sitting on the coffee table. It’s the Houston Realtor and the KW magazine, Keller Williams. For those of you there with real estate agencies that are unhappy with your splits and unhappy with your teams, come talk to Robert at (281) 401-9008 or connect with Jason and Robert at Mr. Texas Real Estate Radio or in their group. At the end of the month, those magazines pretty much expired. They’re worthless. Super easy Jason takes it home, have your kids take the razor blade and cut out all the pages in those magazines. You’ve got all those articles, if it’s a two-pager staple it together and stack them up in a box somewhere. Once a month take your top 48 or your top 60. I would say stay in touch with all 60. Take 60, fold those up, and put a little private note in there while you’re watching TV or you’re doing whatever. Saying, “Robert, I’m thinking of you. I hope this helps.” “Jack, I’m thinking of you. I hope this helps.” “Cassie, I hope this helps.” No business cards. Fold it up, slap it in an envelope send it on over.
Think about what that means if you are at your house and all of a sudden you got a guy sending you articles, it doesn’t even matter if the article helps them. The reality is it’s, “Somebody thought of me.” For us, one of the things we do is I love sending water bottles and coffee mugs with the person’s name on it. Not with my logo on it, that’s one thing, that’s marketing but I put somebody’s name on that thing, it’s luck.
I send birthday card campaigns on every speaking event I ever do. I always ask people for their birthday. We send them a birthday card and then on their half birthday, 180 days later, we send them a birthday cake and a card. It cost me $7 or $8 and the half birthdays get massive engagement and they’re on Facebook all over the place. They get all that because somebody gets recognized on their birthday all the time. They get 1,700 messages on Facebook. I’m the guy that sits and responds to every single one of them because those people spent enough time to engage me on my birthday. The least I can do is give them a shout-out back, but you send somebody some cake, some brownies or a water bottle with their name on it or whatever. That goes a long way in taking away the scary even though we’re not educating anybody. We’re bringing them closer to our ecosystem.
Let’s say we’re starting out and I don’t have 50, 60 people that I’m having conversations, I’m engaging with about private lending and lending money on my deals. If you could pick like the top two places to go find folks that might be interested in bringing some of their capital deals, where would you start?
I love talking about this nitty-gritty stuff because people are fascinated by it and interested in where I would go. I would go to two places, off the top of my head. Number one, I would find the Facebook groups of people that watch Shark Tank. All those people think they have money, they’re all looking for businesses to invest in and they all think there are many sharks in the Shark Tank. That way I would bring those folks in. I would start taking away the scary of why investing in a crazy business is risky. Investing with me in the real estate asset class is less scary, that’s number one. The other places and I know that people will get a little controversial with this one but I would look for the top income earners in network marketing home-based business companies. The reason is they get paid residual income. They have inflows of cash all the time. Somebody’s making $2,000 to $5,000 a month in there. They’ve got plenty of money sitting around and they probably don’t know how to do it, they don’t know where to spend it or don’t know where to place it.
Here’s the reality, Robert, you said that people were looking for principal returns all the time. Here’s the thing, when they have a residual income in a network marketing company where they’ve got lots of cash coming in every month and the top guys, we’re making a lot of money every month. The principal is not nearly as important as my ego being able to say I’ve invested in real estate and the reality is I’m not that concerned about the principal. Because I know that in two to four months, I’ll have it back anyways. I’m speaking a little bit generally here but that’s why I like going into a network marketing company. What’s fantastic about that is they literally get paid to build networks of people and somebody that’s in there have spouses, boyfriends, girlfriends, and other people inside their network.
I’ll make this even easier for you if I could go back a few years ago, I wouldn’t start spending $100,000 a month on postcards. I would have built a better network. It’s so much easier to build a better network because here’s the reality in the distressed real estate business, that’s what we are. My lifetime value of a homeowner that sells me a house is almost zero. Because they’re only going to sell me one house. I’ve only ever had out of the hundreds of houses, we’ve done almost 1,000 at this point where we have bought multiple houses from the same owner. Our real estate agent? They can sell me houses for the rest of their career and that will not happen from a homeowner. If I could go back in time, I would network much better with real estate agents, real estate wholesalers and other real estate investors.
I would not waste my time with yellow letters and postcards campaigns and all that other stuff, all the Google AdWords and SEO and all that nonsense. I’d much rather go, “I’m a real estate investor and I buy real estate.” Have a conversation with a real estate agent, “What are you looking for Mr. Real Estate Agent? Maybe we can work something out where I send you my referrals for retail deals and you send me yours that are off-market distressed assets.” That has been the biggest takeaway for me and that’s what Rob and I have been doing the last months. We will buy twice as many doors as I ever have and it’s all through our network.In this age of communication, content is ka-ching, relationships are king. Click To Tweet
Let’s take a step back for a second. A lot of times as business owners, we sometimes forget that there’s somebody on the other end of the desk that’s making a decision. We do things because we’re taught or were shown a different way and we go, “That way was awesome, we’re going to send a postcard and says this on it.” I was talking with Robert’s wife and she went to meet with a potential seller. She literally said the front door was stickered and plastered in door hangers and postcards coming out of the mailbox. I have this vision of 7,000 investors are all trying to get to the same house. At the point that the distressed homeowner is at that point, they’ve been bombarded with eighteen trillion messages. All with the same message, “We’ll give you cash. We’ll give you twenty times your house value in eight seconds flat, cash and gold that you earn in Bitcoin.”
I would make the argument that a distressed homeowner has shared their problem with more than themselves. What I’m looking to do is build a relationship with the person that person is going to talk to. When that person has a problem, that’s when they say, “Before this gets too out of our hand, let me help you. Let me put you in front of Jason and Robert, I don’t know how even to get a hold of them, but I know that they have this cool Facebook group called Mr. Texas Real Estate Facebook group. You should connect with them.”
What we want to do is take half the people in our network. Take ownership of our relationship and that shows up in a very familiar phrase. “I got a guy. I got a girl.” “I’ve got this deal. I need to take a bank loan.” “I got a guy.” Whoever that guy is in your mind has won the game because now you’ve become an influencer referral source. When I say, “Let’s go start building a network of people that have money already.” It’s that fostering of that relationship, so that if their friends or family have a problem, distressed, their grasses were getting too high, you can go, “If you’ve got an issue with your real estate and you need some help. I don’t know if these guys will help you, but I’ve learned a ton from them. They seem to help out people. They’ll do Facebook lives and answer questions. You’ve got to go check them out.” That’s what I’m talking about.
That is in my opinion more valuable than a database where I’m going to hit with nineteen postcards. The other 7,000 investors are using the same directory, the same exact postcard. The postcard system we use in the greeting card system is all super, hyper, focus field-driven database so I can put somebody’s name in there. I can address them Mr. or Mrs. I can address them by the state. Real estate agents are hilarious to me in this. I get the same 8.5 or 7×11 postcard. I’m in a great farmed neighborhood in Los Angeles and I’ll get 70 to 80 real estate agents’ pieces of mail. 40 of them they’ve inserted their picture and there are a slogan and logo. They all use the same house, the same messages exactly, it drives me nuts.
We’re going to wrap up the show here. We’re talking about building your network, expanding your network and for us in real estate, it’s property and money. What Casey teaches is absolutely gold for getting that private lender list together.
There’s this idea out there that I can automate everything. It’s going to be completely automated and I’m going to click this email and send this offer and I’m telling you that it doesn’t work. That’s not how you’re going build your business long-term. It’s going to be these networks. It’s not necessarily the email database. It’s how you engage with these folks whether it’s online or offline and take away the scary of these things.
Jason, to your point, at the end of the day what we need to be able to do is have a well-rounded communication machine. That if I can’t meet out or I can’t join you at your panel discussions or I can’t come out to an event, then I’ve got an email that I can still stay connected to you. In this age of communication, content is ka-ching relationships are king. That’s what it comes down to is who takes away the scary, builds the biggest, baddest network and is going to win the game every single time.
That’s a great episode. Thanks for reading. We appreciate your support. This is Robert, Jason and Casey signing off. This Texas Real Estate Radio Network.
About Casey Eberhart
Casey Dean Eberhart has been an entrepreneur since his first business venture at the age of five. At the age of 22, he was made General Manager of a $22 million amusement park. Casey majored in both Business Management and Human Resource Management at Washington State University.
After graduating, Casey made his way to Los Angeles where he found himself working as a Production Manager/Line Producer on feature films including the Oscar winning best picture, “Being John Malcovich.” With his well-earned success in film, Casey started his own production equipment rental company, Atomic Production Supplies. Casey’s business ventures are in no way, shape or form limited to entertainment.
His love of business and his love of the “art of the deal” have taken him into uncharted waters time and time again. He has owned businesses ranging from a lingerie store in an adult nightclub, to a Gymboree for the betterment of children, to an online T-shirt company. His need to learn and grow constantly forces him down new paths and at the onset of the real estate boom Casey made his mark with purchases of homes and condos in both Los Angeles and Las Vegas.
His willingness to try something new and his desire for knowledge is his catalyst for his continued success. Business is a skill and Casey hones his skills with ongoing study of his trade. He is an avid member of Toastmasters Intl., a voracious reader of business development publications and he attends training conferences and seminars in a wide variety of fields. He is also part of Business Networking International, Long Beach Community Business Network, The Network for You, and many other organizations.